May 06, 2008
We’re continuing with the fifth and final part of our interview with LACO’s Composer-in-Residence Uri Caine, who will be performing on solo piano at Amoeba Records, 6400 Sunset Blvd. in Hollywood on Wednesday evening, May 7th, at 7:00 PM.
Uri: There is a greater inclusiveness now than there used to be. Barriers get broken down, and then new barriers get erected. Young people have to come in and figure out, “How are we going to challenge this? How are we going to make our way in this world?” There’s always that turmoil, which is a healthy thing.
Bob: I totally agree; and you certainly played a big role, in terms of breaking these barriers down. It’s got to look different for someone like you, looking at the scene today, than it did when you were young.
Uri: I saw the way a lot of the older musicians that I knew in Philadelphia were treated, and disrespected; they were considered to be “just jazz guys.” You wouldn’t see any of them playing at the Academy of Music, where we went to hear the Philadelphia Orchestra. There were a lot of social aspects to it, and there still are. I think there are many musicians who have the sense that, through music, they are seeing parts of society that they wouldn’t necessarily see if they were doing other jobs. Perhaps this raises the issue, “Who am I playing for? Why is it that, in this situation, this type of music is acceptable, but in that one, it is not?”
Bob: What does the expression “Third Stream” mean to you? When did you first hear it used? And how does it relate to the work you are doing today?
Uri: I first heard about that term when I was reading Gunther Schuller. I picked up a series of essays that various people had written for a jazz journal. It was an anthology, and a couple of the essays were by Schuller. One was an analysis of a Sonny Rollins solo on the song “Blue Seven” where Schuller examines a musical phrase that Sonny Rollins plays at the beginning and then repeats in many different ways. I had tried to decipher “Perspectives of New Music” (an academic journal about contemporary music); it was very theoretical, very dense—and very interesting. Here was Gunther Schuller describing jazz in the same manner.
I also read another article Schuller wrote about his experiments with the Lenox School of Jazz. A string quartet was in residence there, but also, so was Ornette Coleman. Classical musicians were playing along with jazz musicians; and jazz musicians were writing pieces with classical groups. Records were released of these experiments, and I bought the records.
My impression was that this was inevitable, because, throughout music history, styles change when different musics are combined. I remember reading that Bach’s son ended up writing in a totally different manner, a new style of classical music, and that he was a teacher of Mozart. And I remember thinking, “How can that be, that somebody’s style, like Bach’s, just comes to an end? And, of all people, it is his son who becomes the one to inaugurate the new style.”
Bob: And jazz musicians combine styles, also?
Uri: Yes. I was really impressed by a record that Chick Corea recorded with his group called Circle. They were playing standards, but the way that they were playing, they sounded like Boulez and Stockhausen sometimes, but it was also swinging. That made an even stronger impression on me than the theoretical writings.
For me, it had a lot more to do with the specific musicians who were involved in the experiments, rather than whether the Third Stream experiment was deemed to be “valid” or “invalid.” To me, it was natural; it was going to happen. I don’t know whether it qualifies as “Third Stream” when Duke Ellington takes Tchaikovsky and reimagines it…
Bob: Oh, I think it does; it falls within my definition. In fact, in a blog here last December, I described seven jazz interpretations of Tchaikovsky’s Nutcracker, Ellington’s and six others, dating back as early as 1941.
Uri: Exactly. So it was something that didn’t have to be theoretically defined. Although I have always admired Gunther Schuller; I read his books, and I actually got a very long letter from Schuller once. He listened to the CD I recorded of Mahler ‘s music; I don’t think he really enjoyed it all that much—he was very critical of it—but the tone of the letter was good. “You went for something different. I don’t know if I totally agree with it, but it’s interesting…”
Bob: “…and congratulations for the effort.”
Uri: When I saw him later, he said, “I hope I wasn’t too harsh…”
I think he’s an important person. I think what he was trying to do speaks to what was going on at the time. I think you have to understand the world that he was coming from. He had an incredible life himself. He was playing French horn with the Metropolitan Opera when he was teenager…
Bob: …and also playing with Miles Davis and Gerry Mulligan on the “Birth of the Cool” sessions!
Uri: Exactly. So he’s trying to figure out for himself what’s happening. I’m sure that he influenced things a lot by becoming head of the New England Conservatory of Music. It’s not a radical thing these days for students there to sit down and play Beethoven, and then also to sit down and play improvised jazz solos. But, we can’t forget that that was not as accepted then as it is now.
Bob: I think it’s easier for us now today because of what he did, the bridges that he built back then. But, do you have any other thoughts about working with LACO?
Uri: I have had a wonderful time working with LACO. Working and playing with Jeff was inspiring and fun. I have made many friends among the musicians. It was great to see Margaret Batjer again. Josefina Vergara joined my ensemble to play Mozart and Mahler in Macao and Barcelona. She is a great musician and we had a great time in Barcelona with her mother! The tour in Europe was also a great experience. I know it takes an enormous effort on the part of the organization and I appreciated how hard everyone worked. I also enjoyed going to some of the schools and universities in Los Angeles and meeting their young musicians.
Bob: What do you plan to do on May 7th at Amoeba Records?
Uri: Well, I’m playing solo. So, what that means is that I’ll probably play a combination of original pieces; jazz standards; maybe some of the classical arrangements that I’ve done, short arrangements of Mahler, Mozart maybe, in solo form; and perhaps some spontaneous improvisations as well. I usually try to do a combination of different things. I’ve played there before. I like that place; it’s a great record store.
Bob: It is a great record store. Uri, this has been just super. I’ve thoroughly enjoyed the time we’ve spent together, and I’m confident that our readers will enjoy it as well. Thank you so much for the time and insights you’ve shared with us, and we’ll all be looking forward to seeing and hearing you on the 7th of May!
Uri: it’s been great talking with you.
1 comment
Excellent question and answers. Thanks for sharing.